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	ORIGINAL POST
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/1/2003 at 1:27pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #1 I decided to start a new "Popular" topic devoted to opinions and things I have to say as well as what you have to say. As long as you keep it clean and in good taste for racers and enthusiasts of all ages, nothing will be deleted here. I don't believe ANY other r/c forum affords a space like this. Have a compliment? A complaint? Or just want to express and opinion? THIS IS THE PLACE! I decided to move this here and start this topic. COMMENTARY... The deal whether a racer prefers Trinity, Reedy or whatever is up to one's opinion. But there are people out there who don't know so they believe the ad hype and then are disappointed. One of the main reasons I do this forum is to save racers money by giving them more informed choices. Yeah, I know a lot is MY opinion but I have worked for Trinity twice, known the CEO and President of Trinity for over 20 years (and they are TWO separate people), designed the P2K and D4 motors as well as the Real Time 2 discharge tray and seen how the company works from deep inside. Wouldn't one have a tendency to believe what I have to say? I think an intelligent person would. This is not about being fired or how they treated me. It's about WHAT I HAVE SEEN FIRST HAND. Tim Morton (former owner and founder of TRC Tires, bought out by Trinity), Neal McCurdy, (owner and founder of Revtech bought out by Trinity and worked for Trinity as head motor-man for 5 years), Todd Putnam (ex-motor man for Team T and GOOD at what he does) , Andy Jacobs (Former owner and founder of Andy's Bodies, bought out by Trinity and he got worked over hard), Rick Hohwart (GM of Orion USA and Peak Performance who once had a battery deal with the big T) as well as myself. These names form the foundation of r/c racing. Without these guys and the companies they started, it would not be the same great sport we enjoy today, yet ALL of us have the same opinion of the Big T. Why do you think that is? Because we don't know what's really going on? I somehow don't think so. And third, Mike Reedy and Associated Electrics have been around longer than Trinity and is the Big T's biggest competitor. But they don't have the dubious and duplicitous reputation that the Big T has. Why? That's a rhetorical question. You are all smart. I don't have to tell you. This will be the last post I'm going to say about this matter. But sooner-or-later someone is going to post something to the effect of "Why do you always slam Trinity Big Jim"?. Please everyone, point them to this New Years Day post so I don't have to go over this thing again. Negative comments mentioned too much aren't good for our sport. It turns off potential newbies who would otherwise get involved in this great past-time. But certain things must be said to make informed choices. And this is NOT saying that every product that Trinity makes is junk. THIS IS JUST NOT SO AT ALL! They make some VERY GOOD products. But the Big T hypes the good ones up as well as the ones not so good as well as the real stinkos. How do you know which ones to buy? Read my forum. But don't say I'm bashing the Big T when I tell you. Funny, no one ever commends me for all the times I mention how good the P2K or the P2K2 motors are or the #4499 and #4500 brushes I recommend almost on a weekly basis. Yes, Ernest Provetti (CEO of Trinity) was unsuccessful in his 'bid" for the ROAR presidency. The ROAR members are people that can't be bought. This man has threatened to sue me on several occasions for what I have to say about the Big T. But nothing ever comes of it. It would seem I have more evidence and witnesses to my allegations than he has to the contrary. Just my opinion as a well-informed individual. Have a great New Years Day. BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	REPLIES
	Posted By: Nanook on 1/1/2003 at 1:42pm Posts: 196   Location: Illinois [ QUOTE ] #2 I think this is a good idea Jim. Seek first to understand.
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/1/2003 at 1:53pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #3 (originally posted by OUTDRIVE on the Reedy Motors topic. I moved it here-BJ) I am not trying to jump on the Reedy/AE forum band wagon, but I haven't had a lot of luck communicating with Trinity in the past. When I saw their new pan car, I wanted more information. I was ready to buy a new car and needed one in a hurry. I followed their web site links and virtually ended up with a generic, blank email form page to contact the company. I did contact them, three times, asking for more information and availability. Now, I realize I am just a lowly small time R/C racer, but dammit, they never once replied. I even was able to contact their switchboard, but all I got was voice mails when I was transferred to customer service, and no replies. Also, in the past, I have had questions concerning Trinity products and never received any response then either. I think they have great products, just darn poor end user support. My three Trinity motors are all I have left of the once pure Trinity R/C fleet. Recently, before I found this forum, I had a question concerning my TC3. Within minutes, Steve Husting, (I think you mean Curtis Hustings-BJ) of Associated, replied with an answer. I replied back that is not what the answer I was looking for. He again replied and offered to get one of the Pro's involved. Within 4 hours, seven emails had been exchanged back and forth. Now remember, I was still a lowly small time R/C racer, but AE decided it is beneficial to help their end customer. I have to agree. And if professionals like AE and BJ promote Reedy motors, I know where my money will be spent. I don't know why I posted all that here. You guys mentioned the rivalry and it tripped my trigger. Damn I'm tired! Happy New Year... (BTW, Gene Hustings and his son Curtis were two of the founding members of Associated Electrics back in the 70's (Roger Curtis being the other). For you to receive an email from Curtis shows extreme dedication to customer satisfaction, IMO. Do you think Ernie Provetti would email you about a problem or question about Trinity products? Doubtful.) BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: derekjr_1 on 1/1/2003 at 2:01pm Posts: 350   Location: Salt Lake City, UT [ QUOTE ] #4 This is a REALLY good idea! It sums it up so the OTHER good forums with information dont have to be taken up with WHY DO YOU BASH TRINITY posts. If you got something to say, say it here. I agree and like I have said before, there are some products of Trinity that I like, and others that I dont! Parental Discretion Advised
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/1/2003 at 2:33pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #5 And some people wonder why I'm so down on Trinity. It's because EVERYONE has the same problem with them as you did, Outdrive. No Tech Support, too many rejected warranty claims, piss-poor after sales service and not enough R&D on too many products. But the CEO Ernest Provetti knows how to spend your money. He once paid Michael Jordon $5000 to shake his hand (or was it the real "Magic" Johnson, I forget). And when I left Trinity 3 years ago, there was tons of unused space at their Edison plant. Things could have certainly been moved around and consolidated, like the TRC dept. Why they needed to move to a "bigger" building isn't known. Or is it REALLY "bigger". Humm... I remember when Maxtec moved from their big 5000 square ft. plant in Santa Ana, CA to a 600 sq.ft hole-in-the-wall, they told everyone in the industry that their new shop was "bigger". 6 months later they were gone. Humm.... BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: Scrubb on 1/1/2003 at 4:20pm Posts: 225   Location: CT [ QUOTE ] #6 this is an intresting topic indeed... I started in 1984 when AE came out with there original rc10. I am preferrable to AE because of the incredible products that they have produced and supported since i've been in the hobby. AE has never bashed another company in any of its advertising (unlike trinity). They never lie about their products, or even state things like "no copies" (unlike trinity). And i say LIE because trinity flat out lies about the quality of there products. AE has always recommended practicing over buying worthless crap you don't need. Their customer service has always been the best in the hobby, in every respect. as a matter of fact, i've never had to pay for a part that was ever missing from my kits or for any part that was defective. AE sells updates for thier kits when possible as opposed to releasing a newer version every six months just to sell "new" stuff. AE has never bought any of their pro drivers. Alot of the pros start out with AE and are later bought by trinity because trinity knows consumers ( i say consumers because that is all each and every one of you is to trinity) will buy whatever they see on kinwalds (started with AE), matt francis (started with AE) and other pro cars they see. Even Gil Losi Jr. worked at AE before starting Losi. Joel johnson is the only original sponsered driver with trinity and although i admire his talent and his commitment, i dislike his commitment to trinity. there are many many great products out there and there are many great companies. Rich Howart with Peak Performance is a great guy and he sells great products, Orion is another good company, Hudy is a good company, there are many. But, i know That AE has been in the hobby since the beginning, i know that they are commited to rc car racing, and i know i can count on their products, support and quality to help me enjoy my hobby.
	Posted By: denntec on 1/1/2003 at 4:22pm Posts: 119   Location: Wichita Kansas [ QUOTE ] #7 The end user support is why I am a AE/ Reedy product supporter , I too had and used the big T and nothing else, but the support just isn't there never has been for the grass root's racer that pay's there bill's, But AE/ Reedy is awsome ! I was fortunate enough to meet Mike Reedy at a race at the old Ranch Pit Shop many moon's ago, I was haveing problem's with my T motor and ask his advise he didn't hesitate to help me get it sorted out and it wasn't a Reedy motor ! I'm shure he wouldn't remeber me this was back in the mid 80's I think but I shure remeber him ! after that race I sold all the T motor's I had and started buying Reedy's, this was not the only time I got help from AE/ Reedy I remeber Jay Halsy advising me on set-up's at the track there are many more still with AE/Reedy that I saw all the time going out of there way to help somebody out this is why I have and allway's will be an AE/ Reedy supporter and recomend there product's every chance I get . denntec's big AE/Reedy PLUG !!!!!!! LOL
	Posted By: jeffie86-96 on 1/1/2003 at 4:26pm Posts: 175   Location: Costa Mesa CA [ QUOTE ] #8 All I care is that YOU tell me what to do to avoid trouble. Thanks Jim. I moved back to Iowa, please shoot me.
	Posted By: OutDrive on 1/1/2003 at 9:58pm Posts: 179   Location: Omaha, Nebraska [ QUOTE ] #9 Hey BJ, This commentary is a great idea. As it grows, maybe it can become a resource for the manufactures. If a growing trend of problems begin to surface, and the complaints are all kind of isolated here, maybe it might get someone's attention. Much easier and more obvious than a remark made randomly in various posts. Who knows? Great idea anyway...thanks!
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/1/2003 at 11:12pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #10 What no hecklers yet? Tell a kid he can't have a cookie and he whines and moans. But give him that cookie and he don't want it! Anybody see the metaphor here besides me? BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: derekjr_1 on 1/1/2003 at 11:26pm Posts: 350   Location: Salt Lake City, UT [ QUOTE ] #11 Good metaphor. I am SOOOOO suprised there are no BASHERS in here YET! Or did I just open a can or worms? Well see. If you build it they will come (ohh wait that is a different saying from that movie, LOL).... Parental Discretion Advised
	Posted By: Scrubb on 1/1/2003 at 11:29pm Posts: 225   Location: CT [ QUOTE ] #12 well, Jim... I think you should spend more time getting caught up with your business, and i think you should find a way to start manufacturing motors again...nice USA made motors. find somebody to design and build you a water brake dyno like you want
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/1/2003 at 11:35pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #13 No arguement from me Scrubb. I agree completely. BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/2/2003 at 12:07am Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #14 I've been on the forum ALL DAY. I'm beat! Ya'all have a great evening. I'm goin' nappin'. Love Ya! BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: jeffie86-96 on 1/2/2003 at 1:27am Posts: 175   Location: Costa Mesa CA [ QUOTE ] #15 I'm confused. I met Big Jim "virtually" before I got interested in RC, when I did get the itch to have a nice touring car he gave me good advice on what to buy even if what I had in mind wasn't "Associated" or "Reedy" product. I never heard him say anything derogatory towards any other manufacurer other than to give his expert opinion on specific items. I respect his authority on the subject and appreciate the time he spends here. Why persons on this and another board I subscribe to feel it is necessary to attack him on a personal level is beyond me. He has his faults but so do I and every member of the human race. Some have attacked him on his past work history, well I got that beat hands down!! He helps here when all he really needs to say is "please refer to Black Book page #123456 " Consider. Perhaps the "hecklers" Have the most to gain from his silence (they probably read his book and are dominant racers) Heh I moved back to Iowa, please shoot me.
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/2/2003 at 8:54am Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #16 Thanks Jeffie, Hey, I'm proud of my work history. Not being able to get along with some of the idiots in the manufacturing end of r/c just lets me know how right I am about things. Sometimes the right things to do are not popular with your employer. Is there anybody who can disagree with that? I have never and will never sacrifice my integrity for a JOB! If there's anybody who wants to attack my past employment record, I've got nothing to hide. What's really important is my current record with the great people at AE and Mike Reedy. Just ask them what they think. At last, I'm with a company that's not out to make crappy products just to have something else to sell and provides good service before and after the sale. I've never known a company that has it's eye on the future of r/c racing more than Associated Electrics and Mike Reedy. Even if my contract with them someday ends, I'll have only great things to say about them and I'm pretty the feeling will be mutual. BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/2/2003 at 9:49am Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #17 According to MSN's Jeff Wuorio, the 5 biggest mistakes companies make are: 1. Advertising always works. 2. Build it and they will come. 3. Love You no matter what. 5. One size fits all. 5. Doing things alone is best. I'm so guilty of #5 but it's better than any of the others, if I had to be guilty of one of these. How many r/c companies do you know that are guilty of #1 and #2? For the complete article, here's the URL. www.bcentral.com/articles/wuorio/167.asp BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: Rass Nya on 1/2/2003 at 11:03am Posts: 14   Location: N/A [ QUOTE ] #18 It is good to see that you can speak your mind on the big T, but you should know that the big T is all about the business and not for the rc racers, look at what they are doing, they will buy everthing that they think will make the business make more money, so you can not bash the big T on that because they are business people and that what business people do make money. The next side of that is if you think about business and money and do not supply the service that your money business require then you will soon see the decline of your business and that is what will take place with the big T, as the saying goes every dog has his day. That is my 2$.
	Posted By: MattW1 on 1/2/2003 at 11:38am Posts: 60   Location: England [ QUOTE ] #19 I remember reading an artical about a worlds race, i think it was the off rd in Finland in about '99. There was a bit in there about the different attitudes of the big teams. AE/Reedy such a friendly almost family like effort built on trust. Losi/Trinity, purely business. Says it all really
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/2/2003 at 1:21pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #20 Well.... There is a difference. I've known Pops and Jr. Losi for many years. In fact, they both used to be members of Team Checkpoint and ran my motor exclusively. Junior won the SCORE World's Championship for me in off-road in both 1983 and 1984. This was THE biggest electric r/c race of it's day. And as I started to say before I digressed, Pops (Gil Losi Sr.) is all business and sometimes he does things that's a little off color but he has never screwed over anyone that I know of and most of his employees have been with him for years. This indicates he treats them well. But the selling out 50% of the business to Trinity that was so quickly dissolved is evidence that Team Losi and Trinity don't think anything alike. Ernie and Pops just couldn't get along in business together with such opposite views on how to treat customers and employees. When I was at Team Losi visiting my two good friends one day, I noticed that at the 3pm break, some of the employees went out to the back and played basketball for about 20 minutes, relieving some of the tension from sitting at a desk all day. I thought this was excellent but a bit out of the ordinary for a business. Years later when I was working for the Big T and Ernie bought into Losi, I asked him what he thought about the employees playing basketball at the 3pm break. He said, "Well, they don't do that anymore, I can tell ya". And this is what separates the Losi business philosphy from that of Trinity's. It's reflected in how their employees and customers feel about the two companies as well. Ernie Provetti (CEO of Trinity) requires all salaried employees to work from 8am to 6:30pm, 5 days a week with only a 40 minute lunch "hour" and no breaks. That got old really quick I can say that. In fairness, I must say he gives most employees an extra week's gross pay every year for Xmas and throws a nice catered breakfast on Xmas Eve and after inventory is taken, we all got to go home and paid for the entire day. I missed all the festivities however because I was home sick with the flu the whole week, probably brought on by a lowered resistance from working so much. They don't call New Jersey the Garden State for nothing. Land of allergies, REALLY big bugs and the biggest land-fill dump site in the entire USA. It doesn't smell like a garden when you drive by that I can tell you. BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: jeffie86-96 on 1/2/2003 at 5:08pm Posts: 175   Location: Costa Mesa CA [ QUOTE ] #21 If you want to keep an employee you can't work them 60 hours a week every week, but according to current executives thinkin, you can always get someone else and they will work cheaper. I moved back to Iowa, please shoot me.
	Posted By: SuperSpeed on 1/2/2003 at 10:39pm Posts: 41   Location: Twin Cities, MN [ QUOTE ] #22 I have a friend who sent in 2 gp3300 battey packs (loose cells) back to Trinity. He filled out the warranty information along with a page of what happened in detail. On the other end, about 2 weeks later, he got the stuff back along with a 2 sentences note from T basically ignoring the warranty and told my friend to buy more battery. personally, I have not deal with T. Working at LHS part time, we get stuff come back such as motors, batteries, esc, etc. I'm glad that I didn't make the rule, most of them had to go direct with the manufacture. I've heard some cases of bad exprience between trinity and customers. trinity wants to buy out every thing out there, so they can control the r/c circle. This make small companies very tough to stay in business, which is a shame. I hope the CEO of T will learn something from the election of ROAR president, also please take some time to listen what your customers have to say. just my 2 cent superspeed
	Posted By: Big Jim on 1/2/2003 at 10:54pm Posts: 6,567   Location: Costa Mesa, CA [ QUOTE ] #23 Excellent Posts Everyone! Yes, this is your place to spout off, compliment or just say your piece. As long as it's r/c related and the language is fit for all, I will not delete anything said on this topic no matter what! Keep it coming. I find all your comments interesting as I'm sure most others do too. BIG JIM "Build it and they will come!" www.bigjimracing.net bigjim@bigjimracing.net
	Posted By: hooked911 on 1/2/2003 at 11:05pm Posts: 152   Location: N/A [ QUOTE ] #24 I use both trinity and associated stuff, I like both about the same. The only thing i wish is that associated would get on the ball more. Case and point, the new motors from reedy. Its taking waaayyy to long in my op. I know the problems face by mfg. come on... I dont want them to be like the big t and crank out a bunch of stuff and leave the racer to pick the good stuff from the gimmicks but I would like to see more products or faster production of products..... Really all i want is a T4...
	Posted By: Claydoh on 1/2/2003 at 11:35pm Posts: 7   Location: Omaha [ QUOTE ] #25 All this talk about "that company in New Jersey" sounds like what we talk about at the computer company I work for. We had just written a new online proofing system when the Devil of Redmond broke Java and put us in the dumpster. All because they could. Marginal products, poor customer support and questionable business ethics ...sounds like T took a lesson from Microsoft - Sometimes your mind can be so open your brain falls out

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